Tell us a bit about yourself, background, and your current role?

I graduated with a degree in Food Science which, through a catalogue of seemingly random decisions, led me into a career in IT.  

I’ve worked “supplier-side” for my whole career and have done a range of non-technical jobs from workforce management through project management, sales and now professional services.

I am currently a Vice President at CGI, leading a consulting business with almost 100 professionals who help clients to transform the way they manage their IT services, to deliver better, more integrated services to their users, consumers and citizens.  

Outside of work, I live with Mrs P and a small collection of relatively old cars on an old farm in North Yorkshire, where we enjoy very poor broadband and the seemingly annual “amusement” of a local farmer ploughing up the phone line!

Did you ever sit down and plan your career?

In the early days I tried to do this and discovered quite that reality got in the way of my “plan”.  For the last 30 years or so I have been more of an opportunist.  I always have an idea of roughly what would be interesting as my next gig, but I tend to respond to opportunities that come up at the right time.

What one thing do you believe has been a major factor in you achieving success?

That’s simple – work hard, play hard.  I encourage my team to take the work very seriously, but not to take themselves too seriously.  We work incredibly hard and really focus on our clients, but we also make sure we have fun along the way, both in work and outside.  I like to bring a bit of humour into what we do, basically I’m the class clown.  I’m a big believer that teams who can socialise and have fun with each other will perform better.  

What has been your biggest challenge and how did you overcome it?

That’s a tougher one to answer.  Professionally, I was a victim of the 2007/8 financial crisis and was made redundant from my then job after less than 18 months with the firm.  Finding a new job at that time was incredibly tough, as most firms stopped recruiting.  I got a pretty small redundancy pay-out but, luckily, I had some savings, and a mortgage payment protection policy.

At that time of my life, I was also a recently divorced single parent, so had a lot of obligations.  After a couple of months of many interviews but no luck, I started really struggling to motivate myself, despite desperately needing to find a new job.  Looking back, I was probably depressed, although I didn’t recognise it as such at the time.

I ended up finding some short-term work as a labourer for a pal, just to get some cash coming in, and started to really work my network to find a new “proper” job.  After almost 6 months and with very little left in the bank, a very good friend was able to offer me something that was a step down, career-wise, but kept the wolf from the door, and provided me with a platform to build the next stage of my career on.  I haven’t really looked back since.

What I learned from this is that personal resilience is everything.  We all have the power within ourselves to pick ourselves up and push ourselves in the right direction.  While it’s important to have support, nobody else can do that for us.  

What do you believe are some actionable steps men can take to be better allies in the workplace?

This is something I continue to learn about.  I have two daughters in their early 20s so it feels really important to me that they get the opportunities and support that they deserve.  

One thing that I hear about from female colleagues and friends all the time is “imposter-syndrome”.  I know it’s a generalisation, but a lot of women feel uncertain about their ability to take on a role.  So do a lot of men, although perhaps we mask it better!  Women often don’t even apply for a role if they consider it too much of a stretch.  I think they can set the bar too high for themselves – when I’m recruiting, I often look for a 70+% fit of “skills and abilities” but a 90+% fit in “culture and attitude”.  Skills can be coached – attitude is much harder to change.

We (men) need to recognise this and make sure we are both supportive and that we learn how to encourage our female colleagues to be more confident in their own abilities – whether this is within their current role or for those who have potential/desire to develop into new roles.  I have the privilege to work with some amazing women in my team and at times have almost had to push some of them into new opportunities.  That’s tough – I don’t want to be seen as being heavy-handed, but equally don’t want great people to miss out on great opportunities. 

It is often said that lack of sponsorship keeps women from advancing into leadership. What do we need to do to inspire more male sponsors and mentors for women working in tech?

I hear this, but I struggle to recognise it in my own work environment.  I think perhaps CGI in the UK is very fortunate to have some incredible female leaders, including Tara, our President.  I see lots of female colleagues being given immense support from both male and other female leaders.  

However, in general terms the way we inspire others to behave in a certain way is to show them the personal value they will realise from a change.  I think some men need to recognise the value of gender-diverse teams to their business and their personal success.  It’s not about ticking boxes, it’s all about better performance.  It’s also about being a decent human being and not being a [insert suitable descriptor here!].

What do you believe the Tech Sector is missing out on by not maximising the talents of both genders?

It’s easy for male-dominated teams to become quite laddish in their behaviours, and I can be as guilty of this as anyone.  I think having a better balance means we gain different ways of thinking about problems and opportunities, I also believe it creates a more respectful workplace.

What are the best examples of positive change in your workplace that you have noticed in the past five years?

Like the rest of the working world, the COVID enforced shift to remote working has left a more flexible legacy that I think helps all our members.  There was always flexibility available for working parents, but now it is more readily accepted.  

I do think that there is a risk that some people have forgotten that they need to spend time in proximity with their colleagues and customers though.  We are encouraging our teams to mirror their clients’ working patterns, and to make sure that they spend at least a few days a month in the office with their team-mates.  It really helps working relationships and can contribute to that fun factor I mentioned earlier.

What is one thing you can do better in your organisation to improve gender equality?

I don’t think we have a gender equality problem.  We have an imbalance of numbers, particularly in more senior positions, but not of equality.  

At CGI we are actively encouraging female candidates to apply for and take on roles, not at the expense of male colleagues, but so that we can pick the best person for the job regardless of gender.  This is naturally increasing the female representation in more senior positions, but of course it does take time to achieve a better balance.

Can you share any success stories or positive outcomes that have resulted from your efforts to promote gender equality in the workplace?

In my job I share leadership of our consulting business with a female VP.  She and I have very different backgrounds and skillsets.  This has become our “superpower” – we bring out the best in each other and capitalise on each other’s strengths.  As a result we have been able to grow our combined team from 3 members to nearly 100 in less than 5 years, including 3 female directors and a fantastic cohort of female senior consultants.